[Shabah 198SE]

300sflyer,

That is very good news and I think that you should have the work done through your insurance. That is why you have it.

To a point, I can understand them not wanting to cover wear and tear items. However, if the impact also allowed any water to enter your gearcase, the delay could have allowed enough time for some rust to start on the bearings/gears. If that is the case, they, because of their delay, should be required to cover those items as well.

Also, if it has not been done already, the gearcase internals should be carefully examined for cracks and/or warpage. I have seen gearcases that looked great on the outside that were cracked internally and/or warped. You appear to have had a considerable impact.

I forgot to ask earlier, but could you tell me if the impact happened on a turn? This would have added additional stress to that area.

It is my belief that you should insist on seeing copies of the statements from the mechanics and the insurance adjuster. You have a right to know why they are doubting your word and that of your witnesses.

Even if you do it with a private message, I would like to know the name of the insurance company involved.

Take Care

Shabah 198SE

[mikeyt]

Originally Posted by Shabah 198SE

300sflyer,

That is very goog news and I think that you should have the work done through your insurance. That is why you have it.

It depends on the costs involved whether it's worth it to pursue a claim.

To a point, I can understand them not wanting to cover wear and tear items. However, if the impact also allowed any water to enter your gearcase, the delay could have allowed enough time for some rust to start on the bearings/gears. If that is the case, they, because of their delay, should be required to cover those items as well.

That's why the insurance policy and the Insurance Act of Ontario states that you must 'mitigate your loss'. A court will also take the position that you are required to protect your asset from further damage. I would assume & i could be wrong, that if the mechanics involved opened the outdrive / gearcase to check for damage, any water would have been drained?

Also, if it has not been done already, the gearcase internals should be carefully examined for cracks and/or warpage. I have seen gearcases that looked great on the outside that were cracked internally and/or warped. You appear to have had a considerable impact.

Agreed. The entire outdrive and gimbal assembly should be examined for damage.

I forgot to ask earlier, but could you tell me if the impact happened on a turn? This would have added additional stress to that area.

It is my belief that you should insist on seeing copies of the statements from the mechanics and the insurance adjuster. You have a right to know why they are doubting your word and that of your witnesses.

Sorry, but you have no 'right' to see statements made by other persons without their written consent. And you have no rights to any notes or opinions kept by the adjuster unless a court of law demands they are produced. Based on what Mike has stated, none of the witnesses actually 'saw' an impact. They would have only felt the sudden jarring and assumed they hit something.

Even if you do it with a private message, I would like to know the name of the insurance company involved.

Take Care

Shabah 198SE

I'm not trying to be difficult but we need to seperate fact from emotion.

[Shabah 198SE]

Originally Posted by mikeyt

I'm not trying to be difficult but we need to seperate fact from emotion.

mikeyt,

I'm not trying to be difficult either and I have an idea of what you do for a living.

I also understand that insurance companies are often defrauded and that is indeed wrong. Just because something is stated in an insurance law, it doesn't make it right. It can be changed. If someone who didn't know me was calling me a liar about an insurance claim and RELUCTANTLY fixing my insured property, I would be insisting on seeing what the mechanics were saying even if I had to do it in the courts.

I worked as a mechanic for years and, at one time, I even taught marine mechanics. Mechanics can be wrong, and if they are not sure about the cause, they should keep there opinions to themselves. They only muddy the waters for all involved. I will add that if they tell the adjuster that they don't know the cause, the adjuster should not press them for guesses.

Take Care

Shabah 198SE

[mikeyt]

No argument about how a mechanic can be wrong but that goes for just about any profession. And the insurers, lawyers, courts etc all have to rely on an 'expert' opinion from someone. Hell, can you imagine if the weatherman was right once in a while?

Its not a matter of insurance law that protects the statements by individuals, its a matter of the Privacy Act here in Ontario. The insurer cannot release a copy of a statement made by an expert without that experts written permission to do so, even if its the men in blue asking. But that doesn't stop our member from speaking directly to the mechanics involved and asking them what their opinion was on the cause of the damage.

Now i believe its emotion talking when the comment is made that the insurer is 'calling 300sflyer a liar'. As i stated in my earlier post, the insurer is relying on information provided by 2 different experts, both chosen by our member. Who else is the adjuster going to ask about a possible or likely cause? The marine mechanic who is experienced & knowledgeable (we assume) and can examine the unit is going to be the first choice for both sides. A forensic engineer might be the 2nd choice but then you get into $$$. The insurer knows better than to call someone a liar unless they have absolute proof. At this point its simply a matter of 'heres what we have: two experts telling us what was the likely cause'. And i'm assuming that they both said 'mechanical failure' rather than impact was the likely cause. Think about it. You have 2 choices for the cause; mechanical breakdown or some sort of accident and since we know an 'accident' is covered, that leaves mechanical failure as the likely opinion of the first 2 mechanics. As i also said in my earlier post, its up to the policy holder to put his loss into a position of coverage under the policy terms. That's why i suggested that 300sflyer get an experienced mechanic to provide a counter-opinion that would allow the insurer to change its position. Our member has done that and the insurer has agreed to coverage. I dont know about the 'reluctant to repair' comments. I would suggest that this is emotion talking but i cant speak for the particular insurer involved (yes, i know who it is and they do have a bit of a reputation for being difficult at times ). But put yourself in their shoes. You have an agreement to cover damages when caused in certain ways with someone else. That someone else comes to you with damages & says it was caused within those terms but his mechanic tells you differently. So you get a 2nd opinion and he agrees with the first mechanic. Are you going to pay for the damages at that point? No, you want someone not connected to the incident to state that's how it could have happened before you will pay out. Our member has now done that & they've agreed to pay.

The positive thing out of this is that 300sflyer can replace the parts that aren't going to be covered by the insurer at just the cost of the parts. The insurer is already removing & reinstalling the outdrive so there should not be any additional labour charges. Its a good time to fix everything up that can be done while its apart at a far lower price and give himself a worry free next few years.

[Shabah 198SE]

Originally Posted by mikeyt

No argument about how a mechanic can be wrong but that goes for just about any profession. And the insurers, lawyers, courts etc all have to rely on an 'expert' opinion from someone. Hell, can you imagine if the weatherman was right once in a while?

Its not a matter of insurance law that protects the statements by individuals, its a matter of the Privacy Act here in Ontario. The insurer cannot release a copy of a statement made by an expert without that experts written permission to do so, even if its the men in blue asking. But that doesn't stop our member from speaking directly to the mechanics involved and asking them what their opinion was on the cause of the damage.

Now i believe its emotion talking when the comment is made that the insurer is 'calling 300sflyer a liar'. As i stated in my earlier post, the insurer is relying on information provided by 2 different experts, both chosen by our member. Who else is the adjuster going to ask about a possible or likely cause? The marine mechanic who is experienced & knowledgeable (we assume) and can examine the unit is going to be the first choice for both sides. A forensic engineer might be the 2nd choice but then you get into $$$. The insurer knows better than to call someone a liar unless they have absolute proof. At this point its simply a matter of 'heres what we have: two experts telling us what was the likely cause'. And i'm assuming that they both said 'mechanical failure' rather than impact was the likely cause. Think about it. You have 2 choices for the cause; mechanical breakdown or some sort of accident and since we know an 'accident' is covered, that leaves mechanical failure as the likely opinion of the first 2 mechanics. As i also said in my earlier post, its up to the policy holder to put his loss into a position of coverage under the policy terms. That's why i suggested that 300sflyer get an experienced mechanic to provide a counter-opinion that would allow the insurer to change its position. Our member has done that and the insurer has agreed to coverage. I dont know about the 'reluctant to repair' comments. I would suggest that this is emotion talking but i cant speak for the particular insurer involved (yes, i know who it is and they do have a bit of a reputation for being difficult at times ). But put yourself in their shoes. You have an agreement to cover damages when caused in certain ways with someone else. That someone else comes to you with damages & says it was caused within those terms but his mechanic tells you differently. So you get a 2nd opinion and he agrees with the first mechanic. Are you going to pay for the damages at that point? No, you want someone not connected to the incident to state that's how it could have happened before you will pay out. Our member has now done that & they've agreed to pay.

The positive thing out of this is that 300sflyer can replace the parts that aren't going to be covered by the insurer at just the cost of the parts. The insurer is already removing & reinstalling the outdrive so there should not be any additional labour charges. Its a good time to fix everything up that can be done while its apart at a far lower price and give himself a worry free next few years.

mikeyt,

I understand what you are saying, but I do not like hearing that a mechanic or mechanics are offering educated guesses about this kind of damage. Granted, I am only looking at a small photo, but it looks like a clean, fresh break from some form of impact. Whether this is boating damage or trailering damage, it looks like impact damage. The policy, without reading the fine print, appears to cover pretty much all perils.

As for our privacy laws, I truly believe that these laws are doing far more harm than good. Too many people and organizations are able to hide behind these laws. I would like to go back to where you stated something and had to stand behind what you said. It may take some of the BS out of our lives.

And, in regard to the weather, just what can be said. I've told Wifey that if there is life after death, I want to come back as a weatherman. I could earn a good wage and be wrong most of the time while remaining respected and listened to.

Have a great day!

Shabah 198SE

[Dredd]

Well, the pros probably know more than me. The local Cobalt dealer, who gets a handful of these each year due to our shallow lakes, told me that they always try to replace the whole assembly if the motor is coming out since its all just cast and can't take a whole lot of trauma. If your boats aren't titled up there taking this route to get it totalled then buying it back might be something to think about.

[300sflyer]

My insurance company is still dragging their feet on this. I have not heard back from them as to what my total costs will be to repair this. It’s been 3 weeks since the incident, and the boating season is coming to a close here in the next month or so. I am considering telling them to just cancel my claim, and my boat policy and take my business elsewhere. Much easier to get reasonable rates somewhere else when you have not had any claims. It would not surprise me to see them cancel my insurance anyway, if they paid out a claim. I have come to learn this company has a bad reputation for doing just that...

I have had a real good look at the damage and nothing else is broken except the gimbal ring, and a bent prop shaft. I can pick up a new gimbal ring for about $400 on Ebay, and install it myself in a day. I have removed engines out of boats before, so for me, it's not a big deal.

The only known issue with the outdrive is the vibration due to the bent prop shaft. Other than that, it drove and shifted just fine after the incident. I am considering finding a used lower unit to replace it, or perhaps even trying to straighten the shaft. I don't see why it could not be bent back to its original position.... I have nothing to lose by trying.