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Brake Master Cylinder Removal

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Old 07-02-2008, 03:09 PM   #1

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Default Brake Master Cylinder Removal

I'm a new member to the Mariah Owners Club forum, I hope some one can help with my brake problem. My partner and I recently purchased a 1998 Z242 Shabah, this is the second Mariah we have owned, both have been great boats. As suspected, I removed the brake master cylinder cap to check the fluid level, only to find a dry cylinder with lots of rust. The trailer is a tandem axle Chariot with DIDCO (which is now Tritan) Model 10 surge brakes. After printing off a diagram of the system I proceeded to unhook the brake lines from the rear of the master cylinder and remove the two main pins that attach the sliding assembly to the fixed housing or tongue. Everything slid out as expected except the Master Cylinder and attaching brackets on each side of the cylinder. Here is my problem, the cylinder and brackets will not budge, it's as if the brackets are being held in place by some bolts that are concealed inside the frame, that is not visible to the naked eye. According to the parts illustration and other trailers I've seen, there are two bolts on each side that retain the cylinder and brackets in place to keep it stationary. Any suggestions or comments regarding the removal of this brake cylinder would greatly be appreciated.

Regards,
Cookscc
Z242
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  • Old 07-02-2008, 05:15 PM   #2
     
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    First off, welcome to the board!!

    I would consider dropping an email or a phone call to Tritan. See if they can help you, unfortunately we all have different trailers, and I don't believe anyone has ever replaced the master cylinder by itself, I have heard of a few people replacing the whole actuator assembly. Keep us updated if you find anything out!
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    -1999 Mariah Z280 MCC, 7.4L MPI Bravo 3 DuoProp
    -2000 Mariah Shabah Z250 Limited Edition, 7.4L MPI, Bravo 1 (Sold, but not forgotten!)
    -Formerly known as ShabahZ250
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    Old 07-02-2008, 05:33 PM   #3
     
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    Hello Cookscc,

    First, welcome to the club and second, let's see about getting you rolling again!

    I would guess you're using a diagram similar to the one from page 9 of the Titan Model 10 service manual: Click here.

    Looking at the diagram, I see what you mean, the cylinder should be held in only by the four #17 bolts. The cylinder's side brackets look to be some kind of spring arrangement so I doubt the cylinder would be attached to the case except by the brackets.

    I suspect the cylinder brackets (# 20 & 24) are extremely corroded (rust wielded) to outer case #1. If so, I would try squirting a liberal amount of penetrating oil between the brackets and case, let it soak for a while then try to loosen the cylinder by using a drift (wooden 2x2) and a mallet and try to "gently" persuade it to budge.

    Good luck and let me know how it goes,
    WetWilly
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    Old 07-04-2008, 03:21 PM   #4

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    Default replacing brake master cylinder

    Hello WetWilly,

    Let me start off first by saying thank you for your quick response and comments. I will attempt to bring you up to date on my dilemma of removing and replacing the brake master cylinder. You are correct, I have been using the Titan Model 10 service manual as my reference guide and parts illustration. In an effort to remove the master cylinder, I first disconnected the two hydraulic brake lines from the rear of the cylinder and then removed the two Master Pins #31. The inner assembly #18 was removed from the outer assembly #1, exposing the Master Cylinder and its two cylinder brackets #20 and #24. I have saturated the entire area surrounding the cylinder brackets with penetrating oil and let soak overnight. I first tried using a few love taps with a brass drift punch and hammer from the underside rear of the cylinder, this did not phase it, solid as a rock. I then tried placing a large screwdriver between the front of the cylinder bracket and inner case with a few taps, still solid as a rock. I can tell that a previous owner has also tried removing this cylinder because the open area on top, where the reservoir cap is has been flared out, apparently from some type of pry bar. Over the past couple of years I have gotten to know the people at our local Boating Center, so off I go to talk to the mechanic. All of the trailers he has worked on have had the brake mechanism mounted on top of the trailer frame and not inside like this one. All of the trailers I looked at had the four #17 bolts securing the two #20 & 24 brackets to the outer case #1. Since this Chariot trailer is no longer manufactured, I contacted Prestige Trailers who supposedly bought the rights and have the blueprints to Chariot. Unfortunately the person I needed to talk to was not available, so far they have not returned my call. I will wait until after the holiday weekend to try again. I have since reassembled the hitch assembly, even though the brakes are not working, due to an upcoming trip. After a lot of reading and research Iíve now become dangerous and will not let this challenge get the best of me. Iím almost convinced that when Chariot built this trailer, they first installed the inner and outer assembly together before the outer frame rails were welded in place. Iím speculating the four #17 bolts that is holding this assembly in place was covered up when the angular sides of the frame were welded to the main case. Surely a trailer manufacture would not do such a thing. I hope that Prestige Trailers can confirm this. Iím about a week away from firing up the pneumatic cutoff wheel and cutting a rectangular access opening on the side of the frame to see if I can find the mystery #17 bolts. I will keep you and the group up to date as things progress in about a week.

    Regards,
    Cookscc
    Z242 Shabah
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    Old 07-05-2008, 09:53 AM   #5
     
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    Hi Cookscc,

    Now I understand your problem, I though you had already removed the four #17 bolts. I didn't realize you couldn't locate them. Yup, until you take those bolts out, all the banging and prying is only going to make a lot of noise but that cylinder ain't going to move as you've already found out...

    I was looking at a 97 Chariot brochure and I have a really bad feeling that you're right on the money about Chariot wielding the frame rails onto the outer case #1 right over the bolts! This is what it looks like in several of the pictures.

    As for accessing the bolts, I wouldn't cut a rectangular opening as this could lead to cracking down the road unless you use a drill for the corners.

    Another way would be to use a hole saw and your cutoff wheel to make oval openings... pickup a set of rubber floor pan plugs, these are oval plugs about 3" long and 1 1/2" wide used to seal cutouts in the floor pans as used on many of the older cars from the sixties and seventies.

    Find a hole saw the right diameter for the ends of the oval plugs and make your access holes. Now you can use the plugs to seal the holes but still get to the bolts if you need to later on.

    Good luck and we'll be waiting for that update,
    WetWilly
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    Old 07-08-2008, 10:18 PM   #6

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    Hello WetWilly and ShabahZ250,

    I wasnít going to explore this adventure any further until I had returned from the lake, but curiosity was killing me and I was losing sleep at night. I went back to my local Boating Center and got some measurements off of one of their trailer that had the master cylinder unit mounted on top of the frame rails, came home and drilled a 1Ē hole. I used a 1Ē hole because the 5/16 bolts that are holding the unit in place requires a Ĺ inch socket which measures approximately ĺ inch OD. Not knowing exactly where these mystery bolts were located, I wanted a little fudge factor built into the equation. First hole drilled was dead on, second hole was about 3/8 of an inch off, so I used a die grinder to finesse it enough to accept the socket. Once the first side was exposed, the second side was a piece of cake. The four reference #17 bolts came right out and the master cylinder slide out the front of the main assembly. Iím still amazed that a trailer manufacturer would knowingly weld over critical hardware such as this, knowing that some day, some body will have to replace the brake master cylinder. I plan to find some snap in metal covers that can be primed and painted to match.

    See attachments for result

    I would like to thank you guys for your quick responses and comments. WetWilly your comment about ninety degree corners and stress cracks is exactly correct. Once again, thanks for all of your assistance.

    Regards,
    Cookscc
    Z242 Shabah
    Attached Images
    File Type: jpg Master Cylinder 001-B.jpg (68.2 KB, 50 views)
    File Type: jpg Master Cylinder 002 - B.jpg (81.0 KB, 48 views)
    File Type: jpg Master Cylinder 005 - B.jpg (71.8 KB, 47 views)
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    Old 05-30-2024, 03:12 PM   #7

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    Default Re: Brake Master Cylinder Removal

    16 years later and here i am finding this post super helpful and about to have to do the same exact thing. I spent an hour telling myself no one would build an unserviceable trailer like this. Thank you for doing the research.
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    Old 05-30-2024, 06:45 PM   #8

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    Default Re: Brake Master Cylinder Removal

    It is amazing the information you can find in these old postings. Hope your fix goes well.
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