Smart Tabs
 

I'm looking to add Smart Tabs on my '99 Z212 Shabah. I know some of you have here, and there are a lot of others on those lowely, plain-jane, generic, boating boards (not a Mariah specific board :D). Most have claimed incredible improvements to bow lift, low speed wander, even top end! Looking at the stern of my sculpted hull, I'm questioning the fit. I'm also wandering about swim ladder obstruction, and the possibility of using composite (SX series) to help prevent cuts/bruises if accidentaly hit with your leg.

Anyone have thoughts? I strongly believe in the product after reading all the reviews, but I'm questioning how/where they'd fit on mine and if the composite types would work. Anyone own a 212 with these? Pictures, if so?

Thanks!!

Ryan

It seems to me I remember seeing someone who was installing them on a Mariah on TB's forum a few weeks ago, and they ran into a snag with mounting them, but Nauticus helped them out... Might want to search for that one.

One thing I never figured out, all the tab manufacturers say to mount the tabs as far out on each side as you can. However Mariah's ordered from the factory with the tab package, they were mounted right down next to the outdrive on the transom. (See first attached pic)

I've seen tabs mounted everywhere on the stern (attached some pics), so I'm kinda wondering if maybe the smart tabs could be located in different places as well?

On a side note, I saw ShipShapeTV a few weeks ago, they were replacing the smart tabs they had installed because there were some adverse affects while reversing. :confused:

I had looked all over TB's site - Yes, there were numerous ones with installation problems and questions, but I never found one of my same boat. I'm sure there's a way, I just wanted to see if anyone else experienced it yet on the 212.

You pointed out one of my concerns... they say to mount them as far from the middle as possible, but I'm worried about the underside of the swim platform getting in the way. Then, I wouldn't have the ideal set-up and may not get the performance expected/experienced by others. The hydralic ones don't have this because of the way they work.

I'm sure John at Nauticus will do anything to help, I don't have any fears of the owner not supporting his product (I've seen tons of helpful replies and him personally working solutions). However, I don't want to drill holes in my hull and not be completely satisfied with the outcome.

I've read about many people concerned about backing issues, but all were from people who don't have them. It seems everyone who does have them say they have improved steering in reverse with no ill effects. I don't see myself trying to do 30 MPH in reverse anytime soon, so I'll take that rumor with a grain of salt (Bennett probably paid ShipShapeTV - that show is more of a commercial than useful information IMO).

You're exactly right. As a matter of fact, Bennett is an advertiser. How ironic.

But I have read many great things about the Smart Tabs, and I would recommend them for a boat your size. The reversing issue is probably a minimal one. Drop them an email with your situation and see what they offer! Maybe we could convince John at Nauticus to head over to the board and answer questions for us! Or maybe even take your boat up to them, they're in Ohio!

Hi Guys

I installed the Smart Tabs SX version on my boat and have had some problems. Apparently the 80lb actuators are too strong for mine (despite what Nauticus' own sizing chart tells you) and caused too much stern lift thus forcing the bow down. I've spoken with John at Nauticus on Monday & he suggested a drop down to the 60lb actuators and stated he would send them out to me the same day free of charge. He 'promises' i will see a planing & performance improvement. If they are installed correctly then they should not present a problem when backing up at idle speed or slightly above, at least i didn't experience that problem. I would suggest calling him first just to confirm exactly which ones / size you should order and you could send him an email with a picture of your rear end (the boat's rear end!) to confirm where they should be installed. I'll see if i can upload a pic of my installation (if it's not too big!)
http://www.mariahownersclub.com/gall...SX_install.jpg

I'll be interested to see how the opinions develop in this thread.

I see everyone rave about the benefits, but I'm still not sold, at least for me. I look at my transom and think the install will be a kludge at best.

I have no complaints about my hole shot, my boat gets up on plane in seconds. Maybe it's the 5.7 power.

I would be interesed in improvements in low speed planing. Mine falls off plane below about 20 mph, but I'm rarely cruisin' down that low... :D

So that low speed wander is a normal condition ?????

I thought it was something wrong with the alignment of my sterndrive on the boat or the effects of the river moving under the hull.

When driving up the river at my cottage going about 1500-1800rpm range, if i lock the steering wheel in one position, take my hands off and let the boat drive itself, it will wander from left .... to right ... to left and sometimes stick in one direction and I have to compensate to avoid going into something. I was starting to wonder if it was even possible to drive this thing straight w/o looking like I was drunk.. lol.

Yes, "low speed wonder" is perfectly normal on single engine, single prop boats. It has something to do with the prop spinning to the right, forcing the boat forward. The prop starts pushing the rear to the left, then comes back like a rubber band (for lack of better words). No, you're not drunk.

I hear dual prop setups don't do this, and are much better controlled in reverse. Maybe the next boat....

Hmmm, well so much for trying to diagnose why my boat is doing that then. So I guess I just deal with it and continually steer to compenstate for it. I will have to let my gf know about that, because she was saying my "over-steer" was getting better... lol.

Well the reason why I said someone might think I was drunk, was because of the boat constantly pivoting side to side. If someone watches my prop wash, its one big constant " S " line. Also, I wasnt sure if I would be confusing other boaters coming at me. They might think I was going to hit them head on when its the boat doing it, not me. We still pass with more then enough room, but just sometimes I wonder.

So does this only affect I/O's or do OB's suffer that as well? I had an older 70hp OB boat for a test drive over a year ago and it didnt seem like it did that.

Forgot to mention... Don't try compensating or correcting it. The best thing to do is hold the wheel straight (maybe a tad bit of pressure to one side) and let it do it's dance. If you try correcting it, you'll usually make it worse. Keep thinking of that rubberband - trying to correct it will be like stretching the rubberband further, then it comes back the other way faster and with more momentum.

Don't know why, but I've also experienced outboards that don't seem to do it as bad. I think it has something to do with the hull. A deeper V or heavier boat may be worse than a lighter, flatter hull on something like a bass boat.

BTW - I was joking about the drunk comment. ;) I know what you mean, though. I'm sure I've confused boaters, just as they've confused me because of the back and forth movement.

Hmmm, well next time im floating up the river I will have remember to force myself not to compensate for the back and forth motion. When I first took the boat out for the season I figured it would be like driving a car down a road.. lol. I was all over the place, kind of funny / annoying. But I made it back to the cottage.

I installed the new Smart Tabs yesterday. I went with the standard stainless ones ST1290-80 (felt the composit might be pushing it for this size boat/horsepower). Install was a bit nervous, drilling holes into your wet slipped boat isn't fun... at all!!!

I ended up putting them closer to the middle than I wanted, only because the strut would need to be mounted in different locations if I went out further (the swim ladder makes the mold different on one side than the other). It went pretty smooth, no real issues (other than sweating profusely from the heat, nervousness, or both).

I made the mistake of changing the prop, changing the gimbal bearing, changing the throttle/shift cables, and adding the smart tabs at the same time. But I wanted to let others know that it IS in fact possible to mount the tabs on this model boat. Thanks for the discussion, I'll give a full report (with pictures) after I try them and fine tune everything.

Sounds great indykoch, glad the install went well. I definitely know how you feel, taking on to many projects at a time. Sounds like it turned out well though.

Look forward to hearing how the boat handles now and seeing the writeup on the install. We'll have to put that in the how-to's section!

Went out on the boat last night to test everything, I'll put most of my findings in the "under the knife" thread (sorry, I have two that are related right now).

As for the smart tabs... LOVE THEM!!! I was sitting down, went 3/4 throttle, jumped on plane and I didn't lose sight of the horizon the entire time!!! I noticed the low speed wander was significantly reduced, planing speed was much lower, little to no bow rise, and it rode better in choppy water. No joke, these things really work this well! I'm thoroughly impressed!

I'm not sure what they did to top end (I had a number of other items addressed at the same time - see the other thread), but I felt like they were definitely doing something. I could trim up all the way without cavitating, and the thing felt like it was riding on just the tabs! Oh yeah, it was hauling a_s!!

If you can look past the disgusting green slime all over my boat right now, here are a few pics of the install:

Looks good, I was wondering how they'd perform in that configuration since I've heard varying opinions on mounting options. Did you talk with Nauticus before mounting them there? If I was mounting them, that's totally where I'd put 'em, out of the way, and where the factory tabs are located. Glad it worked out for ya, and look forward to see how they hold up!

No, I didn't talk to Nauticus. It was a Sunday, and I wasn't leaving the boat out of the water any longer than absolutely necessary! Problem I had, if I moved them towards the chines, the port side actuator would need to be mounted about 3/4 of the way out on the underside of the swim platform. The starboard side would need to mount closer to the transom due to the hull shape (the picture shows how the swim ladder is in a recessed area). The ladder wouldn't have been in the way, but I didn't want to lose my adjustment on the tabs (the slots for the actuators would then be close to horizontal, not vertical). This would have also caused the actuators to be at different angles between the two, and I didn't like that idea because I didn't know if it would affect the pressure on one more than the other. It basically made me move them inwards, which may not be a bad thing - I don't think much of the outer sides of the hull are touching the water when at higher speeds. That would make there be less pressure on the tabs, causing them to be lower, causing more drag. Overall, they were very easy to install and make a world of difference. I'd highly suggest them to anyone who wants the benefits of lower planing speed, faster planing time, reduced low speed wander, and possibly higher top end - so, basically everyone, right???

I've got the low speed wander with a bravo 3. It may be less than it would be if my boat had a single prop, but it's still noticeable. I think it's just the properties of pushing a boat through water....kind of like pushing a rope!

I always thought the duo-prop's were supposed to eliminate low speed wander? :confused:

I have no reference for what this boat would be like with a single prop, but my last boat was a 19' Chaparral with an alpha one and I would say it's about the same.

Maybe I'm just a crappy driver!:D

Smart Tabs vs. "Dumb" Tabs
 

Owners,

I am new to the group and getting caught up on all the general and Mariah specific discussions. I wanted to resurrect this discussion to ask a specific question regarding trim tabs. Mine is a '96 Shabah 200.

Listening to manufacturers, their trim tabs seem to solve every problem short of world hunger. I am happy with my hole shot, WOT, MPH, and I understand low-speed prop steer just part of the single prop experience. The specific thing I would like to improve on my boat is low-speed planing.

Depending upon weight distribution my craft can start to fall off plane at speeds of 25-30 MPH and just cause I can do 50MPH doesn't mean that it is safe or comfortable for passengers. Aside from comfort, my favorite ramp (5 minutes from home) has me navigating a wide flat that is 3' deep at low tide to get to the Intracoastal Waterway. This is easy to manage when on plane and a fiasco if I happen to "fall off plane" or am forced to do so for traffic or speed concerns. And nothing pains a captain more than to ask a heavy-set guest to move up front ;o)

So this seems to be an area where tabs may help... I have looked at classic trim tabs, however, after having totally rebuilt the electrical/hydraulic/mechanical systems of my trim/tilt, I really don't want to invite a new system of that same complexity on board. I see the sealed electric motor systems and have heard that they are much less complex. On this forum I hear about the Smart Tabs, however I would like to retain helm-level control of the tab settings for weight shifting, etc.

So...

Are the Smart Tabs really a set-it-and-forget-it feature?

Anyone have any experience with the electric ones such as Lenco?

I see inside placement and outside placement. Any benefits to each? I too am concerned about the swim ladder, both in terms of swimmers dinging themselves on the tab or using the tab as a first step.

If Smart Tabs solve this issue and don't bring 10 more issues on board with it, they seem to be a fraction of the cost of eclectic or hydraulic ones.

I live in FL so "Winterizing" means - pack a light jacket. This means our to-do list is year-round, however I would certainly like to take this on before Summer if it takes the stress out of slow-speed boating. Thanks in advance for your insight and putting up with my long-windedness.

Thanks,

Bill DeWeese

I'll try to cut out the 'wind' :D

Are Smart Tabs perfect? No. It would still be nice to have full helm control to balance side to side loads a little better at times. But, at the significant difference in cost & complexity, i am very happy with the performance of the Smart tabs.

Smart tabs usually require some playing with to get the setting just right for your boat. It's a simple job though & usually requires 2 or 3 runs while playing with the positioning of the tabs. Some people get lucky & it works well at the Nauticus suggested setting. The tabs do self adjust somewhat as your boat speed changes and that is one of the positive things about them. It took me a little playing with the right settings but in the end, there was a definite improvement in low speed wander and it did lower my 'drop off of plane speed'.

I didn't have a problem with the swim ladder positioning or with swimmers using a tab as a first step but i have seen others (on other boating websites) that have had some problem in that regard. Most of their problem was due to the design of the stern making it difficult to position the tabs correctly. The key to installation though is measure, measure and then measure again, use a pencil or whatever to mark the stern with and make sure everything is properly positioned before you use your drill. And use plenty of proper sealant. Also, i know their application chart tells you to use the 80# actuator version for your boat but...you might want to talk to Nauticus about trying the 60# actuator first. Those 80's were way too strong for my 18'. I would also suggest that Smart tabs are limited to boats 22' - 24' & under.

John, the owner of Nauticus, is always willing to help you out with questions on positioning of the tabs and where best to mount them particularly when you send him some photos of your arse. :eek_animated: There is a lot of information on their website also. Their website link is: http://www.nauticusinc.com/smart_tabsSX.htm

I've heard all the rants about Smart Tabs, and personally, if I had a smaller boat, I would add them without a doubt. They seem to be a foolproof setup, practical, and affordable. However I think my boat is just a slight bit too big and too heavy for them. I want to put a set of Lenco's on this year, if the budget permits, but the way it's looking right now isn't very good. A couple other boat projects have run a bit on the expensive side!

Hmmm that is one item I don't think I saw when I was wandering around the boat show yesterday.

Nor did I remember to keep my eyes out for them.

These still might be a thing to invest in for my lil diablo.

I added Smart Tabs to my '95 Talari 180 a couple of years ago. I used the 60lb actuators and my boat responded just like IndyKoch's. I like how it has smoothed out the ride, it's like someone added a suspension system to my boat.

It really helped in teaching my daughter to water ski. In the past, boat would dig itself into a hole and when it came on plane, you had to adjust the throttle back to slow down and that's when you usually lost your skier. Now the boat comes onto plane smoothly like a ski boat should.

I think I will put a set on my 210 Talari. Do you think I will need the 80 lb or the 60lb ones?

Thanks

Probably the 80lb actuators given the weight of your boat.

I have the 80lb actuators on my 21'. I have them at the least resistance setting, yet still seem to be just a tad too strong. I was thinking about getting the 60lb actuators, but never got around to it. I really think I'm at the point where the 80's are too stiff and the 60's will be too soft. I still see all the benefits of Smart Tabs, I just think they may be dropping my top speed a few clicks from too much drag. I'll update this thread if I do try the 60's.

I have been thinking of putting smart tabs on my Z-210. Mostly for the low speed planing benefit. The location you chose, Indy, is about where I would be stuck with them. I might be able to get them out near the chines, but then they would interfere with my trailer tie down straps. This is bad for me because my home port is also known as my garage.

Thank you Indy for trying it out and being an inspiration to the rest of us. And indeed I have never hesitated to ask my weightier passengers to relocate for the benefit of proper trim and balance.

It might be worth trying the 60lb actuators since there is a fair bit of adjustment available. I know the 80's were way too strong for my 18' and i've got the 60's set on the soft side of the neutral point. Nauticus had no issue with exchanging the actuators either so give it a shot & let us know.

Still trying to decide which ones to order. 60 or 80... The weight of my 210 Talari is 2850 lbs. If some of you with Smart Tabs happen to know the weight of your boat, it would be a great help.:)

Thanks

My 180 weighs in at 2125 per the brochure but i suspect with all the desserts i've been eating since Xmas it will weigh a little more in the spring. :yes_grin:

John (owner) at Nauticus would be happy to talk to you about what is best for your boat. He can be reached at 800-233-0194 or via email at [email protected]

If you have a pic or two of the transom of your boat, attach it to the email to John & he will tell you where the best spot is to install the Smart tabs and where to set your tabs to start.

Hi mikeyt,

Got a question about your Smart Tabs, in your picture on post #5 the starboard tab is a lot lower than the port tab. Is it supposed to be like that and if so, why?

Frankly, I think your compensating for all those extra desserts you've been eating, right? :rolling_laugh:

WetWilly

That was a picture i took after i had installed the 80# actuators. If you notice the upper mounting blocks are in 2 different locations (as the kids say...."my bad").The boat ran tilted for some strange reason so i had to offset the tilt and no, i didnt move the steering wheel & the drivers seat to the middle of the boat to balance the load. :rolleyes: After some discussion with Nauticus it seems the #80's were way too stiff and it was accentuating any imbalance in the weight carried in the boat.
When i switched to the 60# arms i relocated them so they matched and now both run at the same level and perform much better.

Per the brochure, mine weighs 3000 lbs. I'd suspect the more realistic number is 3500 (with optional engine, gas, gear, the occasional "mikeyt" in my boat, etc.). I'm still on the fence about whether I need 60 or 80 lb. actuators. The 80's feel a bit of a drag at top end, but it has a hole shot like you wouldn't believe!!!

I can get rid of that hole shot for ya! :p

I received a reply back from John, and he is said to go with the 80 lb ones. I guess that is what I will do. I wont know for sure if there the right ones for another 3 or 4 months yet though ... :( Darn snow!

Anyone one ever use tabs in conjunction with a hydrofoil? Everyone tells me to ditch the foil and pick up the tabs, why not use both? Not sure if there would be enough clearance with the foil on the outdrive though.

No. Never seen anyone try to combine the two and i suspect it would create some handling headaches since they weren't designed to work with each other. Get rid of the hydrofoil & install the smart tabs.

bpfirrman, you might find some handy information here:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...art+tabs&meta=

I just Google searched "hydrofoil and smart tabs" and came up with those matches.

I know this webpage below is in relation to a Bass Boat, but I would imagine the information would still hold true for all boats..

http://bassreport.com/forum/rec.outd...ss.t134766.htm