refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

im having my boat sent out to have the floor redone, it is way over my head with the stringers rotted out and alot of other nonsense i neither have the time or patience for. Now the friend of mine is doing the work who happens to own a small boat shop, he suggest not putting foam back in because all it does is ad in the rotting of the stringers because the hull never breaths. i can see this b/c the boat was sunk 5 years before i bought it and the wood or foam never fully dried under the floor. I know the coast guard kinda frowns on this and there wouldnt be alot of hope getting the boat back if the hull ever because compromised but isnt that what insurance is for?? IDK if there is another option. If this boat were going into the ocean or inter coastal waterway i would be more inclined to doing it. This is only gonna be a lake/river cruiser....

any suggestions?

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

If you make a significant modification to a boat and that modification leads to some sort of accident or becomes a contributing factor in an incident and it becomes apparent to an insurance company that you've done this, you run the risk of having your insurance claim denied for not advising them of a Material Change of Risk. Its your money though and your call.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

Mikey covered the insurance part. Now from a structural point. The foam does more than just provide flotation. Some parts of the hull use a sprayed in foam, other parts use a 2 part poured in place foam. It is a structural part of the hull meant to work with the stringers and bulkheads. It absorbs a lot of vibration and sound. It makes the hull more rigid(it handles and rides better). The bonus is it keeps you boat from totally sinking. It is your call, I am just trying to provide you with some more information from a different angle:)
Happy Boating
Dan

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

my spider man scenes tell me you are both right. i have read in some other places people used foam blocks and cut them to size. i found a manufacture that makes foam blocks for dock floats however they do not recommend using them under the floor. my goal with this is being able to leave a 1/2 gap off the stringers and was going to leave and opening under the dash in the cuddy to put a fan to at the end of the season i could dry this boat out from head to toe or in this case from bow to stern. not so much a cost issue this boat has become an open checkbook job and its more of a quest then a hobby to get it done, but along the way doing things as smart as possible.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

Wanna use that "open checkbook" on my boat? :D

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

one boat is more then enough!! if i win the mega millions ill get back with you:yes_grin:

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

Foam blocks are used for floatation in some instances, but there again they are not structural because they are not "bonded" to the hull and stringers/bulkheads. Generally, poured in place foam bonds slightly and expands to fill voids and uses more of a compression force to add stiffness to the boat. The basic way to install it is to complete the new boat skeleton, encapsulating or at least coating every piece inside and out with resin, starting at the transom and going forward, drill 2 holes about 1" dia near the front of each chamber that willl hold foam. Elevate the front of the boat as high as feasible. Mix the foam a little at a time and fill each chamber. It expands fast and you [B]do not[B] want to overfill a chamber(it can blow the top of the chamber off)Do it a little at a time till each chamber is filled. If you don't want to fill each chamber completely u could pour with the boat flat, but that may be hard to control fill rate/quantity(lots of voids). Remember the foam is structural, meaning it helps to strengthen everything including the floor. Hope this helps.
Happy Boating
Dan :)

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

I dont know the exact layout of your hull etc but is it possible to place a tube for drainage before you refoam the hull?

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

there could be a place for a drain.. im looking at any possibility. thank you for all the possible options

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

What did you end up doing? I agree with your boat guy about the wood in the hull needing to breath.

After reading this thread and doing some inspections of the structure of my boat I'm very worried about the potential of rot on mine also. My ski locker is always wet and after peeling back the carpet around the floor cooler I see that all the wood under the floor is just bare treated wood. It was not covered with resin or anything else. When I open the rear fuel tank sender access panel I see the wood there was only painted and not very well. I planned on keeping this boat for a long time, but now I'm concerned.

My 77 Cobalt which I sold this year had zero rot and drained and dried out very quickly.

I'm thinking about this winter pulling up the carpet, drying the boat out very well, and coating the floor and inside the ski locker with either resin or possibly having it sprayed with Rhino Liner (you can get almost any color now) and then putting in a snap in carpet.

On the Mariah promotional video... They talk about the wood they used "simply will not rot" and that is not true... Any wood exposed to water constantly will eventuallly rot. Most people don't keep a boat for 20 years, but I'm not most people. These boats were sold with a lifetime hull warranty.... haha. I'm not impressed with the build of my boat at all... Fancy and pretty does not mean well built.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

Try to realize that your boat is already 18 yrs old. If you feel that badly about the boat and its build quality then i might suggest selling it on to someone else....

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

I'm not trying to offend anyone here... Just expressing my concerns, which ARE valid, and sharing ideas on how to make these boats last longer. Our Mariah only has 150 hrs and was very well kept. The Cobalt I just sold was 35 years old, and still looked almost new. Was hoping to get the same results with this Mariah, but don't think I will unless I address these issues.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

I realise that you weren't trying to offend other members here & that you were only expressing concern about your own situation & as such, i offered a solution to alleviate your problem. The other issue i see that you have is a 'constantly wet ski locker'. All wood no matter how well treated will eventually rot if it's allowed to constantly sit in water so you need to find & fix the cause of the problem, not just try to prevent the potential wood rot. Check your drain holes by running a wire brush or something (like a baby bottle cleaner?) thru the channels to ensure that there is nothing blocking the passage of water back to the bilge area. If you dont do this already, you could also consider tilting your boat (raise the front of the trailer) while its stored on the trailer so that any water inside the boat flows back towards the bilge and leave the bung hole plug out so that it drains out of the boat.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

I agree with mikeyt. If your ski locker is constantly wet, then you need to investigate the drainage paths. Elevating it helps a lot too. During the winter storage, I use a car jack to elevate the trailer tongue and put three patio paver stones underneath the trailer jack wheel. This helps any water that gets into the boat to go straight out the drain plug. Give it a try and see if it works for you. Otherwise, maybe consider putting something in there to remove the water when you're not using it, like a damp-rid?

and PS - every boat uses wood, no matter who the manufacturer, despite the "no wood no rot" claims. they just either coat it with fiberglass, resin, or epoxy. and chemicals do break down over time, especially when exposed to water continuously.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

Another school of thought I have heard is that a layer of fiberglass on top of a wood floor prevents the wood from drying out, leading to wood rot. Not sure if that is exactly true, but I can see the theory behind it... "The wood will get wet from underneath regardless, so there better be a way to dry it out."

Kris

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

i ended up putting the foam back in. and here are the reasons........
im investing quite a bit by redoing damm near everything original right down the stitch pattern on the seats. SO for whatever reason if the boat sank i DO NOT want it going to the bottom of the river or lake. i would lose my mind if it was a total loss not to mention the recovery cost cause im sure then dont want a 22 ft boat sitting on the river floor. the other reason is i talked to an insurance agent i know, not my agent or with my company that if a "friend" of mine redid the boat and didnt put the foam back would they cover the loss......the short answer is no, if they found out there was no foam. they don't always spend much time on a boat that isn't newer. The foam only cost just under $400.00 it was a smart move i feel. as far as mariah saying the wood in there boats are rot proof, i have about 50 examples debunking that myth.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

I think we covered that when it was stated that ANY wood, no matter how well preserved, will rot if left laying in wet conditions.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

I appreciate all your thoughts and ideas.

I've always kept my boats with the plug out and the bow raised high. When I get home from the lake I leave it hooked to the truck in my steep driveway overnight uncovered to let it drain and dry (unless they're predicting rain) and then park it in the carport with a large wood block under the jack raised as high as it will go. I even flipped over my hitch so it would be higher in the front when attached to the truck.

This is the first boat I've had difficulty drying out, so the problem is new to me. I washed the ski locker out when I first got it home a couple months ago because it seemed oily in there (still does) and the water ran out the drain quickly, so there's no restriction there. The carpet in there stays wet, but the drain is open, which is just weird.
Mine has a cuddy so rarely does anyone who is dripping water stand over the ski locker, and I don't use the ski locker to store anything except a paddle since I'm trying to get it dried out, and it still seems oily in there. The boat was kept inside by the original owner who traded it in back in February and I bought it from the boat dealer where it had sat outside from Feb until the end of May when I bought it. It was covered, but they had let the cover fill with water and drain into the boat. It was raised high as the jack would go and the plug was out, but we had a fairly wet spring which is unusual around here.

It doesn't seem to drip water for days on end which you would expect if the foam filled compartments had gotten full of water.

We love the look, style and performance of the boat and we get compliments on it all the time. I actually mentioned the idea of selling it to my wife and she said heck no... she loves her purple Mariah. lol.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

ok, understood but....the fact still remains that you have a constantly wet ski locker so the water is getting in there & staying there for some reason. Do you have a water supply into the cuddy? It has to be coming from somewhere....

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

Then give it to me and go spend 40-50 grand on a new boat.
We'll both be happy! :)

Larry

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

No there's no water supply to the cuddy or anywhere as far forward as the ski locker. The floor cooler is right behind the ski locker, but since the drain on it leaks (another pet peave) it never sees much water in it... just an inch of water or so and melting ice. It has no cracks and drains quite quickly when the plug is pulled. Water from the cooler almost immediately finds it's way to the drain plug at the transom.

I'm wondering if since the floor is NOT sealed with resin as it should have been (and you'd expect it to have been on a "high-end" boat)...maybe water has soaked all the foam in the compartments around the ski locker and that water is leaching into the ski locker keeping the carpet wet. I'm thinking maybe the oily film also in the locker is from whatever the wood was pressure treated with.

My bilge pump has yet to kick on by itself (yes it is working properly). My Cobalt's bilge pump would kick on a couple times a day when the kids were in and out of the boat frequently. Part of that is due to the differences in the sun pads, and that I make them stand on the swim platform a bit before entering the boat.

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

There's no doubt Mariah makes a great boat, but as much as I love the company and everything they've produced, I wouldn't consider it a complete top of the line boat. Every boat has it's downfalls, and none of us are claiming a Mariah is completely flawless, because that'd be a completely false assumption. When you really get into the "nitty gritty" of every boat, no matter who the manufacturer, you're going to find something that got overlooked, or might not be perfect, because boats are still built by hand, so there's the human element in there, and we all make mistakes and forget things occasionally. I have found many things in mine, and actually somewhat enjoy seeing a few because it reminds me that real people made these boats. However if I find something and there's a serious issue, I correct it, and keep enjoying my boat. There's also a little sense of pride that comes with repairing things, and it makes me appreciate the boat even more.

Cobalts have a reputation as a high end boat, there's no doubt they make nice boats, but it definitely shows....For example, a friend at a local marina paid $90k for a brand new 22 footer. When Mariah was still in business, you could pick up a top of the line Z302 for less than that. Comparing a Mariah to a Cobalt is like comparing a Cadillac to a Bentley. Close, but not that close.

Another brand that comes to mind is Doral/Doral International. They make great boats which are somewhat pricy, but their work force is made by probably the most dedicated staff members with the best skills in the industry. The average length of time employees are with the company runs around 22 years. That says something, and it shows in everything that rolls off their line.

That being said, if you plan to keep your Mariah and have some pride in owning it and enjoying it, there's always a little work involved. Whether it be tightening screws that work loose, cleaning the electrical contacts once in a while, fixing a torn seam in the upholstery, or fixing the wood and water drainage in the ski compartment, these are things that happen with our boats.

I'd suggest having a marine surveyor or engineer come and take some moisture reading tests and investigate the area in the hull around your ski locker. Sure it'll cost a little bit, but they'll be able tell you how serious the problem is, and recommend some options.

just my .02 :)

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

I don't mind working on the boat... I went through the outdrive on my Cobalt and I have already put a new fuel pump in the Mariah. I know that there will always be work envolved when owning a boat... either you do it yourself or have a fat wallet , which I do not have. lol.

That's a good idea on the surveyor or engineer. How do I go about finding someone?

Thanks .

Re: refoaming the hull after the new floor or leaving it open
 

You can visit the Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors website:

The Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors, Inc.® - (SAMS®)

You can search by state, and it'll list all the accredited marine surveyors in your area! :wink_thumbup: